The reality is it was too complicated. We had stuff that worked great when it was used properly.

Retailers know this stuff works and that consumers like it when it's done properly.

Our packs are for people who truly use the gear and don't just read the magazines and dream about it. And it will last 15 to 17 years. The material has a lifetime guarantee.

We'll probably be fairly small. The U.S. military will be the backbone of what will allow us to knock you out. Right now, the military has the most interesting things going on.

We found that we're better off controlling production here and selling direct to the people using it. It has allowed us to let the value that we build into the pack be paid by the customer, instead of an intermediary.

I wanted something simple. Over the course of a weekend, I turned out a hip sack that became a precursor to the stuff we're building now.