He may or may not get out someday. If he does it won't be for at least 20 years.

Abe is the least likely to be a pragmatist. But the costs are too high not to be pragmatic. They lose leadership in the region. They lose legitimacy.

I would like to see that number retired someday if I can't put an Earnhardt ... or my grandsons [in it]. It would have to be a really, really special occasion.

His intention has been to take responsibility for what he's done. He knows he has taken somebody's life . . . and wants to serve whatever time is just for that.

I believe he understands the concepts.

Calls are certainly up and we are taking on another 25 staff.