He came out first with quite a few broad-brush themes, saying Japan has too much debt and spends it public money the wrong way,

Then he gave some specifics on the bad debt situation, perhaps more detail than we would have expected, but we are yet to see anything comprehensive on the fiscal reform, and we don't expect anything soon.

We sold the towers, not because we didn't like them, but we needed to sell them to pay down debt. Now we're in the position to expand again.

We, being the Western world, wouldn't let Russia off the hook on debt. So there were demands on debt servicing in the early days until they ran out of reserves. There was no real aid program, just a fictional aid program.

We were just hugging each other, and just saying, come on Tom, you can make it! Well nobody likes to see this, and I know he feels really badly that a lot of the players and people saw him go through this. He just loves these kids.

I'm not saying he was never a gangster because he was. I'm simply saying he'd had enough. He wanted out.